US Bailout Money?

OK...
Here's another touchy subject... LOL


Before Prez Bush left....
He gave the "Big 3" chevy/ ford/ chrysller .... some money....

How many feel that was a wrong move?
Or right one?

Wrong move....I could do so much more with that money

OK this could no will get messy! Capitalism with out consequences is one step away from Communism, WHY should any company be bailed out. so some over paid uneducated UNION MONEYS can keep their over paid under worked jobs ? My god look at the Japanese auto industry, a better product for a better price, Why ? Better labor and lower Labor costs. even in the most expensive country in the world, they manage to have a higher slandered of living, and produce a better product at a lower price! and using my tax $$$$ for corporate welfare is no solution!! sorry I've worked hard for a living, and until you have to write a check to the IRS you don't realyt feel the mpact of paying taxes to support these UNION GOONS

It's happening here now too. They's banging on about the banks are starting to loan to small buisnesses again, which in all fairness, could save me from getting made redundant. But I don't understand why these massive profit making Car Manufactures can be in trouble. I know that there has been a lot less people buying cars, but it's been less than a year that that started and these giants are looking shakey.

I'm thinking that if they get these payouts they should come with a clause that they have procedures in place to handle times like these so they don't have to start shutting factories cutting back on staff. So they can hold there own without the intervention of the gov.

Wrong move
So what if a number of dealerships go out of buisness. I can buy a Ford from the people across town just as well as from the other 3 deallers just around the corner. Haven't they ever heard of "cut backs?"
Everyone else in this country must tighten their belts so why not the "BIG GUYS" too. Do they think they are too good to be touched by hard times. they can always reopen at the next spark of recovery.
Look at Starbucks for crying out loud. One on every corner for pete's sake. Now they are crying. Try just staying as big as you are...not trying to get 2x as big overnight. These are the frickin people that have a lot to do w/ driving this economy down the drain. Bail out the public & the rest will follow suit. Do we need 4 or 5 Starbucks within 4 miles of eachother? NOT!!! Same w/ the damned car dealerships. I mean come on, how many places do I need to go buy a Chevy at?
These freaking people piss me off!

skeeps wrote:I'm thinking that if they get these payouts they should come with a clause that they have procedures in place to handle times like these so they don't have to start shutting factories cutting back on staff. So they can hold there own without the intervention of the gov.

Well I told you this WAS going to get messy! Mrs. Skeeps while I DO Value and respect you thoughts you do live in "The Nanny State", The socialist Paradise where more then 1/2 the people are on some form of Government assistance. I can not imagine living in a country where entire industries can and are Nationalized. only in Britten and the former USSR, can a government come in and say we're taking over this company, and OBTW we make the laws that govern, so we'll make laws that are favorable to us! much like the British Auto Industry!I am sorry Skeeps, I promise I'll respect you more in the morning. OBTW how do you like you eggs

WOW! we all agree!.....

The bailout was a bad idea!

I think these Automakers should've been allowed to TANK and go out of business.....

Honestly...
These are the same clowns that bought out and bullied small inventers with better ideas out of business....

Cars that run on garbage.... patents have sold to car makers... so car makers can continue to oil....

Cars that run hydrogen back in 1974... were bought out... by the big 3....

Had Prez Bush let the car makers run out of business....
I'm sure...
These cars of the past would come into production....


Its ashame they got what they wanted from Bush...

Just to add....
The american car has never been the most respected American innovation... in the world..

If anything .. these clowns should've cleaned up their act a long time ago....

The American car should've been a household name oversees ... like MTV ... or McDonalds.... Or Pepsi... or Coke...
All these are American icons... which are found overseas....
Granted these are different industries... but still examples of how it is possible to make an impact overseas...

architech wrote:Just to add....
The american car has never been the most respected American innovation... in the world..

If anything .. these clowns should've cleaned up their act a long time ago....

No I am SORRY Architech, the Correct Answer to the Question "Why is the American automotive industry Failing?" is:

The Correct Answer is "THE AMERICAN UNION WORKER"! the same reason our education system is in such a Ghastly mess. Jobs where pay is directly linked to seniority, not Performance. Guaranteed Jobs as long as you just show up. The American Labor laws have gotten so F'd up by the liberal left, things like you can't fire a drunk, because it's a "Disease", Teachers that are marking days until they Get a pay raise or retirement, Workers that can't be fired for being lazy! old Joe's got his 90 days probation out of the way, so now he can lax's off, they can't fire him! Now if the Union's were not a Protected Racket, and a union worker could be fired and replaced by workers willing to work for a pay scale that is indexed with his performance, then the American Auto Industry would have a real chance to compete in the world market! My GOD Look at what the auto industry did in WWII, They litterly saved the world from Japan and Germany. And in the Cold War years, Our Aerospace industry was the finest in the world! but then the dark days of Liberalism Descended on us, and every time the unions got another protection, the Union worker got sloppier and lazier ! the Result our Auto Industry has fallen to the level of the English!

I watched a documentry, it was a few years ago now but I believe it rings true.
That there was a secret plot hidden away in the country where the car manufacturers store all the brand new cars that they couldn't shift.
Basically they'd made too many and as they didn't want to lower the price to shift them they were just parking them up and letting them rust. Seems crazy how they're struggling now.

Just re-reading your post Rik again. I cannot believe you can't fire someone who's drunk on the job. Is that really true? Our company would treat that as gross misconduct. Straight out of the door.

You don't need to say sorry either Rik, for expressing your point of view. Our country is in a right shite state.
We've had alot of immigrants over the last few years come over as they think that this is the place to earn, but can you believe..they're all leaving now!!

Must be something I said.

The people who get my back up would be the White Brits who have no intention of working. Anything they can claim they are doing, disability allowance, unemployment benefit, ca't be-arsed-to-get-off this-stinking -sofa-to-turn-the-telly-over benefit. and yet it's these people who are moaning the most. 'Oh we're in a recession, it's so hard'
HOW THE F*CK DOES IT EFFECT THEM?

Back to the car industry...to be precise. JCB factory uttoxeter, my uncle works there. They decided to ask the workers what they wanted to do when this all started kicking off. Either they axe a lot of employees or everyone drops some days. They decided to take the latter. The JCB plant there is massive and for alot of people the main source of employment. fathers, sons go to work there and are expecting thier sons to follow suit. So this is a major shake up for rural towns.

So really in essence we have two types of people here, the sons that follow thier fathers into the local car plant to work. and the sons that follow thier fathers into the dole que.
I know who I would rather help out if they were in need.
Unfortuanatly, the taxpayer has to help out both

I remember the attitude of the Yanks back in WW2 (obviously I wasn't there at the time)...the war is over...dump everything in the sea, if we give it all to the natives we will cause a massive recession.

So many years later I used to dive these dump sites throughout the Pacific. I was stunned at what I saw them throw away. Jeeps, trucks, medical equipment, everyday items that would have helped war-torn communities get back to normal...but no...destroy the lot.

Then in the 70's I worked for an American mining company. That was an eye opener. If I sent a chainsaw back to the mainland to be fixed, I would get two band new ones back the next day....cheaper to give you new ones than fix the old one....and we don't work in single units.

If I put a requisition in for a box of batteries for the survey team radios, I would get 10 boxes back..."we work in units of 10".

One day the main Yank boss stole my Landcruiser to go fishing...he left me his heap of c r a p to use. When he gave me my LandCruiser back and I went right off, He just said "I will do as I want". He returned to Hawaii, and a week later I got a brand new LandCruiser delivered to me.

Another time, that same boss was on another fishing trip, when he got caught on a fire break...a tree across the break. When he came back he went right off at me..."you never told me that fire break had a tree across it". I just said..."how the hell was I supposed to know that?"

That's when things got real interesting. The Yanks decided that I had to know everything about the Island (I was the chief surveyor at the time)....so they gave me another Landcruiser and another survey team. I had to send one survey team up north every week, to do nothing but drive around and have fun, for a whole week at a time. The boys absolutely loved that. Then they gave me unrestricted access to aircraft, and said that myself and the mining engineer had to do a fly over of the Island every morning.

All this expense for some mineral sands...rutile and zircon.

Anyway when the mining operation was closed (because the exploration mineral content wasn't there)...that's when things went all wrong.

We had to use the worlds biggest dozers to dig the worlds biggest hole...then dump every single thing into the hole...then cover it all up again. All because the yanks were worried about a major recession hitting the local area. Such a bloody waste.

skeeps wrote:I watched a documentry, it was a few years ago now but I believe it rings true.
That there was a secret plot hidden away in the country where the car manufacturers store all the brand new cars that they couldn't shift.
Basically they'd made too many and as they didn't want to lower the price to shift them they were just parking them up and letting them rust. Seems crazy how they're struggling now.

That would have to be in England! Because as we all know the British Auto Industry is owned and controlled by the Government under the Guise of "Nationalization", which is another way of saying Nanny State. "Keep the Peasants Fed, and they won't uprise, and demand their Inalienable God Given Human Rights to Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness, like those Boorish Americans did" and as we also Know the Government is the slaves of the Trade Unions for the same reason! So we keep Production Numbers up, so we have a reason to keep all the dead weight on the payroll, sounds better then on the dole, to the Proletariat!

skeeps wrote:Just re-reading your post Rik again. I cannot believe you can't fire someone who's drunk on the job. Is that really true? Our company would treat that as gross misconduct. Straight out of the door.

I worked for a large company that was sued and lost over a guy that was fired for Drinking on the Job, but he was an alcoholic, and Seeking Treatment, so He has a Recognized "diese" and the company had to compensate him until he decided to go back to work.

skeeps wrote:You don't need to say sorry either Rik, for expressing your point of view. Our country is in a right shite state.
We've had alot of immigrants over the last few years come over as they think that this is the place to earn, but can you believe..they're all leaving now!!

Well my Dear Skeeps, we to are in the shite, and we too have a serious Immigration problem with the Meskins and them Indians of yours. Here is a typical story of your f-'ing Ingins, when I was still working in the IT Engineering Field, I worked for a company that Laid me off because I made too much money, and Hired 3 Indians to replace me, because they'll work for 3 cents under dirt, any how one of those f-'ing Indians, had the Nerve to call me and ask if I would work on a project for him, and when I quoted my Rate, I was told he could find an Indian programmer for 1/4 of what I quoted! they come over here and make 3 cents under dirt, then send 1/2 of it back to India, AND LIVE piled up LIKE COCKROACHES in a Roach Motel!
And we have the same worse problem with illegal Mexicans that come here and work for nothing, so they can send 1/2 of it back to Mexico, and devalue the american worker in the process! the problem has become so bad that you can't get a job in America if you don't speak Spanish. You can't even go to Walmart (our Tesco) and buy American Products in English, everything that comes home from school has to be in Spanish and English, due to the fact that the Mexican refuse to lean English, They come here illegally and expect us to Cow Tail to them!

skeeps wrote:The people who get my back up would be the White Brits who have no intention of working. Anything they can claim they are doing, disability allowance, unemployment benefit, ca't be-arsed-to-get-off this-stinking -sofa-to-turn-the-telly-over benefit. and yet it's these people who are moaning the most. 'Oh we're in a recession, it's so hard'
HOW THE F*CK DOES IT EFFECT THEM?

So really in essence we have two types of people here, the sons that follow thier fathers into the local car plant to work. and the sons that follow thier fathers into the dole que.
I know who I would rather help out if they were in need.
Unfortuanatly, the taxpayer has to help out both

We have the same Problems here, There are good people that want to work and need help, I know a Gal who's company went bust after working there 20 years, and she's 17 years in to a 30 year mortgage, and out of work for 6 months loosing everything she's worked so hard to save just to keep from loosing her house , Just to keep going. and by the same token I know Guys on The disability, Never having worked a day in their life I could go on but that would be a Hate Crime!

Ya know... Capitalisim is a double edge sword...
An american invention... or maybe just a sterotype of Americans...

In either case....
Its easier to turn out crappy cars and keep their profits high...
And unions... although MOB own.... Its just easier again...
To give in to the unions... to keep profits high than to fight them...
You know some one must be getting a cut in the US politcal system...

Otherwise.. the mob would be pushed out...
Look at LAS VEGAS.... the casinos were a MOB invention...
And eventually.... They got pushed out when the US government finally decided to get a piece of the pie...

The Flamingo Casino was the last Hotel/ Casino to be mob owned...
Now its all corporations... paying high taxes to the "Uncle Sam"....

Anyway...
Unless the unions begin to show a high profit.... like VEGAS....
They'll always be around... as their small pocket change...
Remember.... Unions... are not imposed on any company....
Its the workers who call the local MAFIA for support to start a union...

And once guns and muscle get involved... its kinda hard for a boss to say no...

And yes "skeeps"... Union workers CAN NOT be fired for drunken disorder or fighting...
They can be ... dismissed for a week or two... without pay ---- while the Union Representatives hash out the particulars.. in terms of payment for damages and possibly a change in work duties so it doesn't happen again....

The union concept hides under the Constitution amendment of the RIGHT TO ASSEMBLE.

Again... the mob hired themselves a lawyer who found that loop hole in the law....

And have used that loop hole to prepetuate the unions all over the country.

As long as 90% of the workers join the union at a work place...
Employers have no choice...
Especially when they will all STRIKE and WALK out at a drop of a rock -- when told by the Union Representatives...

But as Rikard pointed... with the word liberals...
Yes --- even the laws protect the mob... from the law...

As much as everyone knows... the unions are crooked...
The LAWs must protect everyone... without prejudice... or we only become hypocrits....

Hence... the laws become more complex and confusing with its words.. of "here with"... the same as thou... ect etc etc.... LOL

architech wrote:.......As much as everyone knows... the unions are crooked...
The LAWs must protect everyone... without prejudice... or we only become hypocrits....

......

But Architech the Laws have become weight against the Businesses, case and point the demonstration in Chicago over the closing of a Door Factory, where workers OVER TOOK the Factory property until the banks Agreed to finance the reopening of the factory, and they were allowed to get away with that under the Guise of Union Rights! Seriously in America every little boy and girl is suppose to be equal, but in reality if your a minority or an illegal, you have more rights than Guys like me! Like when my Daughter was in high school, she had to compete with a narrower "Quota" to get in to the Math Science Magnet school! In other words the courts have set up a Quota system in Texas that forces Magnet schools to have something %40 BLACK, %20 Hispanic, %20 Caucasian, and %20 other, so my kid instead of competing for top %X of the district to get in, she had to compete for the top x% of 1/8 the number of seats, How is that fair or equal? then when it came time to go to college there were so many scholarships she was automatically excluded from based on the fact that she was white! all I'm saying is America should be all about All men being Created Equal, but we have swung the pendulum so far in the other direction, that now I'm the oppressed guy! You know as a business owner I should have the right to hire/no hire and fire anyone for any reason! I as a business owner should not be forced to hire any one for any reason, with out fear of litigation! and if I am known to be a bad employer then the free market will balance me out! Laws of supply and demand will keep things right.

As i undestand it... Towns/ cities... where employers are under the maginifying glass to hire minorities or under the watchfull eye of that discrimination IS NOT HAPPENING... then to be communities where... there is a large number of minorities... and hence have politicians simpathize for the voter/ minority people... In other words the politicain is making sure he or she has a pay check for the next 4 to 6 years.....

Hey it sucks that business owners are subject to these laws... but at the end of the day... its just business....
It sucks that a politicain can effect another... in such a way...
I'm also sure if you look it...
In your world where your the boss and you're having a s h i t y day... 'cause you aint getting none...
And you take it out on Billy Joe Bob... or Carlito or whoever...
It sucks for them too --- for you to have so much power... over them....

So I guess its about perspective...

On the one hand i can sympathize with you about you having to watch yourself due to societies hang ups and how you feel like a minority in your town where --- when looking at the US as a whole ... whites are the majority... its sucks for you...

But on the other hand...
You now know how it feels for "Ricky Ricardo" ... in a pure white town where the laws you face are not there for him and his family...
like in places like Wisconsin....

I guess it has to suck for someone.... somewhere...
Welcome to life...

architech wrote:...
I guess it has to suck for someone.... somewhere...
Welcome to life...

Very well put. I've most certainly been there

Well if I remember correctly They gave them what approximately 800 billion dollars. Now they talk about how we're in a recession and need to get the economy massaged, why didn't they give the money to we the people. I figure if they broke it down and split that money between all adults 18 or older and only US Citizens, we would get approx. $427,000.00 per person. OMG $427,000.00!!! WOW!!! THAT WOULD STIMULATE THE F U C K I N G ECONOMY!!!!!!!

jimithing wrote:Well if I remember correctly They gave them what approximately 800 billion dollars. .....split that money between all adults 18 or older and only US Citizens, we would get approx. $427,000.00 per person. OMG $427,000.00!!! WOW!!! THAT WOULD STIMULATE THE F U C K I N G ECONOMY!!!!!!!

You sure about that number????

Cause if you are....
HELLL YEAH..... i would pay my mortgage off....
assuring the bank would gets its money from me.... and I'm sure most home owners would do the same....

And then I pay off any credit card debt....
And even maybe get a new car...
or feed the banks some more with putting away some money... in either a IRA or ordinary savings account...

But maybe you're solution is too easy....


And it neeeds to be more complex.
LOL

...and take us all out to dinner!

skeeps wrote:...and take us all out to dinner!

At the NUDIE BAR!

skeeps wrote:...and take us all out to dinner!

Maybe the guys...

But the females... may lead to another agenda.... .... I'm thinking somethin like Jimi's avatar.... LOL

How about we Take all that bail out Money and Stimulus Package Money and give it to no one, then cut my Taxes down to a reasonable Percentage of income. or maybe we could cut the Land / Home Taxes down to a reasonable rate for guys like my Dad who Fought in one war and came back in a wheelchair, defending those peoples right to Succeed or fail Based on their Abilities? Maybe we could Take all that money and rid our selves of Inheritance Taxes so maybe my sister and I stand a chance of continuing the Family Farm?

NAHHHH
We aught to just reward IDIOTS for doing stupid things like Driving Multinational Companies and Banks in to Bankruptcy! and maybe we should reward all those Stupid Americans that bought houses they Knew Good and Well they shouldn't have bought.

I still owe somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 to 9 Grand on Credit cards from before I got sick, can I get a bail out?

skeeps wrote:...and take us all out to dinner!

OHH you just Name the Place and Date I'll be there Darling, then maybe after you and I can go out and have a RIGHT GOOD BOOZE UP!

The Wagon and Horses, Griffydam, Leicestershire.
tomorrow night, 8.

Oh and check out the landlord, lovely bloke, long hair pony tail his name is Paul and he has a speech problem, can't prononce his R's

So it goes a little something like this.
'Yes I had to go the the bwewewy on Fwiday mowning'

Me and my bro punching each other in the arm trying not to laugh.

skeeps wrote:The Wagon and Horses, Griffydam, Leicestershire.
tomorrow night, 8.

OK Darling, but what you going to tell the husband? am I your long lost
First Cousin on your Mother's side from America? Or will you be bringing
Passport with you? Should I get you a visa ?

skeeps wrote:Oh and check out the landlord, lovely bloke, long hair pony tail his name is Paul and he has a speech problem, can't prononce his R's

So it goes a little something like this.
'Yes I had to go the the bwewewy on Fwiday mowning'

So he's British? HUH? or is just Swishy ? I hope you won't be disappointed I Had to cut my Hair OFF IN THE 90'S but I'll gladly grow it out again for you Luv

skeeps wrote:Me and my bro punching each other in the arm trying not to laugh.

OK this a Serious Problem Every 3 seconds a woman is Battered, and this is a shame I Rather like to eat mine Plain. Seriously a Woman is Hit every 3 seconds in this sad world, and we could Greatly Reduce this if they Would JUST LEARN TO SHUT UP, AND Listen to What there TOLD!